Taylor Tomlinson‘s latest stand-up special, Prodigal Daughter, begins with an Oscar Wilde quote, appearing on screen before the comedian steps into frame: “You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you have never had the courage to commit.”
It is a bold way to begin a stand-up special, and Tomlinson knows it. “I’ve always wanted to do that at the beginning of a stand-up special,” she tells Gold Derby. Since she’s also the writer and director of the hourlong set, Tomlinson decided to finally employ the Wilde passage for her “12-year-old self.” The quote speaks directly to the tension running through her routine: what it means to leave a rigid belief system and become someone new, even if that evolution costs you along the way.
Tomlinson performed Prodigal Daughter, her fourth Netflix special, inside an active church in Grand Rapids, Mich. The setting is personal; Tomlinson started performing in churches as a teenager, and now she is able to reframe a past that once felt confining into something she now controls.
Below, Tomlinson breaks down the choices behind Prodigal Daughter, from the Oscar Wilde opening to the mechanics of shaping a joke on stage and in the edit, the personal evolution that quietly reshaped the hour.
Gold Derby: Let’s start with that Oscar Wilde line about him representing “all the sins you never had the courage to commit.” Do you feel like that’s part of the job as a comedian, being the person who says the forbidden thing out loud?
Taylor Tomlinson: Thank you so much for clocking that, because it was one of those decisions I made. I’ve always wanted to do that at the beginning of a stand-up special. With this one, I directed it — it was very personal for me, and I was like, “I’m just going to do exactly what I want. I’m going to make this special for me and for my 12-year-old self.” I think it’s one of those creative choices where it could go either way, where maybe some people could roll their eyes and other people would really like it, which is my favorite creative choice to make as I get older. Something that people could discuss and have different opinions on.
For me, it worked so well with the themes I tackle in the special about leaving a super-conservative Christian upbringing, and I think anybody who grew up in that sort of environment has to wrestle with separating who they actually are from who people wanted you to be when you were growing up, whether that was family or the church, or a combination of the two.
And I felt that, to be totally honest, that quote is a little bit pointed to certain people in my life that I lost when I became more myself, and I came out, and I wasn’t a clean comedian anymore, and I wasn’t a Christian anymore, and I was so afraid I would lose all of the Christians in my life, both friends and family. And I didn’t, but I did lose a few, and I think that quote is a little bit in reference to the people I did lose, and the problematic Christians that I have encountered who are just so angry. I think it’s coming from a place of resentment, because they can’t be true to who they are, and they can’t live out certain aspects of who they are, because the Bible says they shouldn’t, or they’ve been taught that they shouldn’t, or whatever message they’re interpreting from God. And I think that that can manifest in really ugly ways, and they can use it to mistreat and abuse other people, because they’re just so essentially jealous that they aren’t brave enough to be who they are.
Your relationship to religious material has gotten more nuanced over time. When you first committed to this special, what felt different in you, and what did you want the special to reveal about your voice now?
I wanted it to reflect the journey I’ve been on over the last 10 years, 12 years, 15 years, really, since I started doing stand-up. As a lot of people already know, before I even talked about it in the special, I started in churches when I was a teenager, and came from that world, and I think when I was younger, my jokes about religion were really angry, because I was really angry at the environment I grew up in, and was still untangling myself from all of the harm. It really did take my entire adult life to fully detach and deconstruct. So I wanted this hour to reflect, and I wanted it to be, a love letter to my religious family members that I’ve retained, who have accepted me and my agnostic queer siblings and myself, and still support me and come to my shows, even though we believe different things spiritually.
I wanted to write an hour about religion that honored my experience and the ways that it held me back when I was younger. But, also acknowledge that religion and spirituality and those beliefs really help people, and not everybody is using it as a way to make themselves feel superior to everybody else. There are a lot of people who are utilizing religion in a way that’s really beautiful and helpful and makes them better people for other people.
I always start developing an hour with the ideas I want to explore, and usually it’s a collection of ideas that I don’t know exactly how I feel about it yet. And over the course of the two years I’m touring it, I figure it out, and I come to a more complete conclusion about certain things. I hope that that all came through. I was nervous, because it is hard to do a nuanced hour of comedy. It’s very hard to have nuance in stand-up. Most jokes are written in extremes. I have a joke in this hour, and I realized halfway through the tour that was not how I felt anymore. It’s the one about marrying somebody who has their ex’s ashes in their house, or just being jealous of somebody’s dead spouse. I was doing this joke, and I thought it was funny, but then I went, “That’s not even actually how I feel. Maybe if I was 10 years younger, I would feel that way, but I certainly don’t feel that way now.” And that was fun, because I got to do a joke that was twice as long, exploring both sides of it.
That’s what’s so funny about turning 30. I really felt so different when I turned 30. And it put my 20s in perspective. It’s so much more relaxing on this side of things, because it makes me more confident to say how I feel and what I think, and I am more comfortable with nuance and uncertainty.
You define religious trauma in a specific, almost disarmingly simple way, where the audience instantly recognizes themselves in it. How did you land on that framing, so it hits as both true and funny?
Wow, what a compliment. Well, I think the simplicity is a side effect of stand-up and just the economy of words, you know? That’s the trick to most joke writing; getting it as short and snappy as possible. So if you want to make a point, you’ve got to do it quick. So, I try to just slip things in. I’ve found that as I’ve gotten older, it’s gotten easier to take time to set up those ideas before getting into the hard punchlines.
That’s my favorite type of comedy, as well. I think that’s why so many people love Fleabag, where it’s so laugh-out-loud funny, and then it’s just a gut punch about grief, or insecurity, or whatever else. That’s what I’m always trying to emulate.
Filming a special in a church is a big swing. What did that setting unlock for you?
I always wanted to film it in a church, because that final joke I do about “oh, I could go back any time.” That’s the whole special’s full-circle moment for me. I thought it would be funny to do it in a church, and I thought it would look cool and different. I never thought we were going to find an active working church that would let me do that hour in it. I thought we were going to have to find one that was a set that they use for movies, or an abandoned building that was once a church, and maybe had some stained glass.
They found this gorgeous church in Grand Rapids, Mich., that does stand-up shows there. They had no notes about the subject matter, anything I could or couldn’t say. They didn’t feel disrespected, they had pride flags outside, and gender-neutral bathrooms, and were just very progressive and cool, and it really made me emotional.
It was very representative of what I talk about in the special, and how I feel on a personal level, where I’m like, “If I had maybe grown up in a different Christian context — because religion and Christianity, it’s such a spectrum — then who knows where I would be?” But that wasn’t my experience personally. I didn’t feel judged or ashamed, and it was the first time, maybe ever, that I felt that way in a church, that I wasn’t feeling those ancient feelings of shame from my childhood bubbling back up.
You directed the special yourself. As a director of your own stand-up, what are you most demanding about?
To me, directing this special wasn’t that much different than all of my other specials, because I’m a control freak, and I’m really in there, for weeks. And to me, I don’t watch a ton of stand-up specials anymore, but to me, it’s really distracting when the cuts don’t make sense, and it’s jumping around in the middle of sentences. I think the editing helps to punctuate the jokes themselves, and it helps punchlines land, and it helps to make more serious moments hit harder. It’s part of the choreography, in my mind. So, the edit’s super important to me. Being able to be in a position this time where, I’m always a control freak about it, but this time to really be like, “I am the director of this, and I do feel comfortable asking for exactly what I want, and being slightly overbearing about it, because I just wanted to make sure we had every possible angle, because I know how difficult the edit can be for me, who has to watch myself for hours and hours.”
I had a very clear vision for what I wanted the opening to be. And so making sure we got all of those shots of the church, and then in the edit, making sure they were all the same speed, and we’re hitting with that song I picked. I was down to a few different songs for the intro, and I found that version of [ABBA’s] “Gimme, Gimme, Gimme” online, by the Boston Gay Men’s Choir, and it all fell into place, and I’m really happy with it.
Honestly, it’s hard when people ask which special is your favorite, or which one do you think is the strongest, or you’re most proud of, because it always changes. But I am deeply proud of this special, because it feels like the attention to detail was greater than all of my other specials, and I was the most confident I’ve ever been, because I’ve been doing this for a long time now. I felt much more comfortable, not just on stage as a performer, but as someone with a creative objective in mind, and my ability to pull that off. And with the team that I’ve worked with consistently across all of these specials. We all just work so well together now, and we know what we’re doing, and we have a rhythm, and everyone’s so good at their job. I don’t think I could have talked about this subject matter any sooner, and I don’t think I could have made this special any sooner in my career.
When you’re taping a special, what are you consciously doing differently because the cameras are there?
I’m moving around less during live shows on tour. I’m not as worried about pacing too much or stopping on certain lines. At a live show, it mostly depends on the width of the stage. For example, the Chicago Theater is a really wide stage, so I’m pacing back and forth a lot more so that everybody feels like I’m in front of their section of the audience a little bit more. So you do have to adjust, like you’re filming something. You’re trying to hit marks, you’re trying to make sure that you’re not moving around. I’ve seen people’s specials where they’re pacing really frantically, or they’re swaying back and forth, or they’re looking too far to one side, or not looking up at the right moments. It’s all stuff that you just have to learn by doing it enough times yourself and watching enough people make mistakes that you don’t want to make yourself.
I’m a lot more conscious of my movements and my body and my face. Because also, doing huge act-outs, it wasn’t as big of an adjustment for me on this special, because on this last tour, we were doing such big venues, I would pay the extra cost to have screens at every show, so that everyone could see my face. And when you have that luxury, it makes it a lot easier to perform jokes the way that you’re going to perform them for camera, which is more subtle, as opposed to when you’re a tiny little ant performing to the back of a 3,000-seat theater, you’re going to exaggerate those movements and facial expressions a lot more. So, you’re able to get the reaction you want with much more subtle facial expressions and movements, which I really loved. Again, this was a luxury and an investment I made in the tour, not just for the audience, but for me.
Your Christmas and Easter routine feels like such a precise “inside baseball” breakdown, especially the way you talk about “recruitment weeks.” How did that material come together, and what were you tapping into beneath the jokes?
That’s just experience, that’s just from growing up in church. When you’re somebody who goes to church every single week with your family, and then you see how much bigger the crowd is on Christmas and Easter, and it’s full of people you don’t see around, you’re kind of like, “Oh, wow!” And they do pull out all the stops, and they bring in a bigger worship band, and maybe a guest speaker, and they do a little skit, or whatever.
I remember one year there was a fake snowball fight. They do lights. It was just always really funny to me growing up. I don’t even remember when I came up with that idea for that joke, but I think it was a while ago, and it was just something I had in a notebook and was putting on the back burner. Because I did think it was such a funny observation, but I was like, I don’t know if people will get this if they didn’t grow up in church. But it seems to hit for people, even if they didn’t. But ,yeah, it is very inside baseball, for sure.
The “Crucifix merch” joke is gold. But it does saunter right up to the line. Is there a limit to what comedy can take on, or is it all about how you frame it?
I think it’s all about how you frame it, I really do. What I love about stand-up is it’s so delicate. Jokes are so delicate. You can say the exact same joke in a slightly different tone, and it’ll work one way, and it won’t work the other way. You can have a joke that stops working in the middle of a tour, or it’s getting diminishing returns and you realize that you were taking a step forward on the last word that you stopped doing somewhere along the line, or you forgot a line, or you changed the setup just a little bit, and it totally threw everything off. It’s really fun, and there’s always something to tinker with.
With the merch thing, it’s almost like a tag, it’s like an aside, so it doesn’t feel as harsh. I think maybe that’s part of the reason it worked so well. It’s kind of like a light aside, and then therefore a surprise, as opposed to if I had just delivered it really severely. I love talking about stuff like that. I love conversations like this, where you’re really getting into the specifics of what do you do differently for specials, what do you do differently in certain markets. I love the craft of stand-up so, so, so much.
When you’re on stage, and you’re delivering, and you’re doing a great job, and you land a joke, and everyone in the audience is laughing out loud, what does that actually feel like?
Oh, gosh. Nobody’s ever asked me that. That’s such a nice question. That’s always what I want to ask people who are really good singers. I always want to ask people, “When you’re on stage and you’re harmonizing, what is that like?” And I assume being on stage and telling a joke and having it hit is probably the closest I’ll ever get to that, because I can’t sing.
It feels like you’re harmonizing with an audience. When you’re really crushing, and the audience is just with you the whole time, and the energy is hot, and the room is just throbbing with energy. Those shows make me feel like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so lucky to be alive, and I’m so lucky that I get to do this.”
And as I’ve gotten older and been in this business longer, I’ve only become more and more aware of it, and more and more grateful for it. … It feels very spiritual to me, and it feels like in those moments, I go, “You know what? Maybe there is something more,” because this is otherworldly, how this feels.
Taylor, congrats on Prodigal Daughter. Thank you for taking the time to really unpack the craft behind it.
Thank you so much and thank you for the amazing questions. Seriously, this was so lovely.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
