Tyler James Williams has been waiting for this. It took three seasons of will-they-won’t-they for Gregory Eddie and Janine Teagues (Quinta Brunson) to finally get together on Abbott Elementary — and then nearly two more of relative bliss before Williams got what he’d been quietly angling for: the fight. “I’ve been waiting to break them up for some time,” he says with a mischievous grin. “Every couple technically needs to break up a little bit to really be together long term. You need to understand what it’s like to not be with each other, and also understand how much of a good fit you are.”
The blowup arrives in “Trip,” Season 5’s sharpest relationship episode, when a vacation that can’t get off the ground exposes just how differently the two of them are thinking about their future. Williams doesn’t pretend to be neutral about it. “I’m inherently biased because I live in Gregory’s skin,” he says. Gregory offered to drive the entire way. He’s quietly thinking about engagement rings. He’s playing a long game that Janine doesn’t even know he’s playing. “They’re talking about two different things,” Williams says. “Janine’s talking about the right now. Gregory’s talking about five years from now.”
In a conversation with Gold Derby, Williams broke down the emotional stakes of Season 5’s biggest relationship fracture, what he discovered about his castmates when he stepped behind the camera to direct “The Mall – Part 2,” and why he believes Abbott Elementary will be the show that tells future generations what the 2020s actually felt like. “It’s a very optimistic show,” he says, “in the midst of a very dark time.”
Gold Derby: After five seasons with Gregory, how has your understanding of him evolved?
Tyler James Williams: One of the things I love about TV — and network TV specifically — is that you get a chance to grow with a character over time. Gregory in Season 1 is definitely not who Gregory is in Season 5. It’s been really fun to watch him evolve, and I think we’ve done a great job of pacing that evolution — giving him moments where we see more pieces of his personality, but also more fracture points. It’s not just learning about a character; it’s putting him in scenarios where he’s forced to change. As we’re now preparing Season 6, I’m already starting to mull over how the incidents of Season 5 change the way he shows up on day one.
What’s been most rewarding about being part of this ensemble for 93 episodes?
The most rewarding part is that we’re now able to tell more complex stories than we could in Seasons 1 and 2, because our chemistry is that much tighter. You’re not concerned about what your scene partner is going to do. We’ve been working together for 93 episodes — which is crazy. There’s a lot more freedom in that, a lot more room to take bigger swings. We’re looking at the little tiny nuances now, dialing in past the archetype you see initially. You watch a basketball team that’s gelled for years — they’ll know where the person’s going to be next. We kind of have that feeling on the show now.
In “Trip,” Gregory and Janine get into a major argument. What does that episode say about where they are as a couple?
“Trip” has the biggest argument we’ve seen them get into thus far, and that’s what I’m talking about when I say these moments where they’re forced to evolve. We learn more about their communication styles. And I love how they’re both technically right, but also both technically wrong. Quinta spent a lot of time thinking about what their argument was going to be, and I think it needed to show where their minds are at this point. In a show that’s five seasons in, it’s easy to believe the characters still want the very same things they wanted in Season 1. And in that episode, we find that they actually want different things now. Gregory is less focused on becoming a principal and more about creating a stable environment for his future — and money is becoming a bigger issue for him. Janine, meanwhile, is realizing that this is the life she’s going to live, so quality of life is really important to her.
Whose side are you on in the argument?
I’m inherently biased because I live in Gregory’s skin, but I get his perspective. I really, truly get it. Because they’re talking about two different things — Janine’s talking about the right now, Gregory’s talking about five years from now. He’s thinking about how he’s going to pay for an engagement ring, which nobody knows he’s thinking about. And he said he was going to drive the entire way. That to me is the thing that sends it over the edge — if he was asking her to drive as well, that’d be too much, but he’s willing to do the whole thing himself. It shows he’s willing to rough it to build a better future for both of them.
The argument ultimately leads to a breakup. How does the show maintain its warmth and humor around something that real and painful?
I think being able to have our usual warmth and humor surrounding a more serious argument is the reflection of life that Abbott does so well. Most people’s lives are strung together with warm moments, but every now and then there’s a fracture point. Art needs that balance. It’s difficult to do, and I think it’s our privilege to be able to do so. The show itself being about teachers who are just trying to find a way in the midst of not having nearly enough money — that’s the light in the dark. We like to remind people that you may be getting a lot of light, but it’s people still dealing with real issues in the midst of it. I also hold the opinion that every couple technically needs to break up a little bit to really be together long term. You need to understand what it’s like to not be with each other, and understand how much of a good fit you are. The episodes that follow “Trip” kind of go through that.
Gregory’s reaction shots are some of the funniest moments on the show. How instinctual is that now — and can you improvise any of it?
One of my biggest pet peeves — and I’m not saying nothing that the writers don’t already know — do not write a “look” into the script. I hate it. No one can know what Gregory is going to feel like in the moment until we get there. Those looks aren’t pre-planned; they’re not designed to get a laugh. It’s not until I’m standing in the room with the camera operators and the other cast and actually saying the words that I realize where he feels caught, or where he feels like someone is being ridiculous. A lot of people see the finished product and think, “Oh, this has to be formulaic at this point.” The brilliance of our show is that 93 episodes in, we’re still finding those moments page by page. If you write “Gregory throws a puzzled look,” you’ve given the actor a goal — and I don’t think goal-oriented acting is healthy. If you have good camera operators who know the actors they’re working with, they’ll go find those moments with you. That’s the magic. Our primary director, Randall Einhorn, came over from The Office. He built this genre. He knows what is necessary to make those moments feel real.
You directed “The Mall – Part 2” this season. What was it like shooting outside of Abbott‘s usual four walls?
You don’t get to pick which episode you direct. I’d heard early on that we were going to do a mall arc, and I didn’t know if my episode would land there — and it somehow just did, timing-wise. I found it one of the bigger challenges we’ve ever had as a show, but for that reason it was really fun. We know how to shoot the school. Now we’re dropping these characters into a space they’ve never been in before — and the camera operators in our world are also characters, so they don’t really know how to shoot the space either. It’s really fun to play with them trying to figure out specifically where to catch moments. I have one shot where Janine and Gregory confront Ava (Janelle James), and we shoot it from outside the room in a way where you almost miss a little bit of each of them — the camera has to fight to get both of them in frame. That’s where the mockumentary format really works. You want to put everyone in an environment they cannot predict, because that’s what would be happening in real life. I wouldn’t have picked that episode if I had the luxury — but I’m happy I got it.
What’s the biggest thing you’ve learned about your castmates from directing them?
It feels more like letting them off a leash. People see the finished product of Abbott. They don’t see what has to be, at this point, thousands of takes of just funny stuff hitting the editing room floor because we have to fit it into 21 minutes and 40 seconds. In my episode, it’s less directing and more letting them make the choices I know they’d eventually make anyway. Once we have it clean, now it’s just play. One of the people I love doing that with the most is Chris Perfetti. I can tell him to come into a scene six different ways and he’ll find something each time. I don’t even have to tell him specifically what to do — I give him an intention and he finds a way. That’s an actor at the top of his game.
Abbott has such a specific visual rhythm. How much freedom do you have to put your own stamp on it as a director?
I related it a lot to music. I grew up playing music — my family were musicians, my first instrument was drums. You can lay out the melody of a song and four different drummers will find different ways to play within it. That’s how I see doing this show. The melody is already there, the structure’s there. But the little beats in between — the accent notes, the 32nd notes — that’s where you really get to play. It’s like coloring: the framework is there, you can draw in the lines, but the colors you choose are unique. I love finding new things. In every episode I’ve directed, I’m asking: what’s the next beat we haven’t touched yet? What’s a comedic rhythm we haven’t found? That keeps the show fun and keeps people guessing — because 93 episodes in, when they get caught off guard, that’s the laugh I want. The one that comes from deep in your belly that you couldn’t control.
When did you first realize Abbott had become something culturally important?
I began to realize it after our first season. We shot Season 1 in 2021, and I think it came out at the end of that year — we were living in a post-pandemic world. When I look back on it now, part of how the world will remember the 2020s will hopefully be through Abbott. The way Seinfeld felt like the ’90s — we were trying to find what does our world feel like now. Abbott‘s been on long enough and sustained long enough that it can take up that space, which is very unique because it’s a very optimistic show in the midst of a very dark time. That’s how I like to be judged. That’s how art should be judged: where did you land culturally at the time? What does it make people feel? I think when we look at our show down the road, we’ll say: that’s what the 2020s felt like.
What has awards recognition meant to the cast and crew of Abbott Elementary?
The Emmys always land in the middle of our production. We’re there the night of, and then the next morning we’re all back at work — same thing for the Golden Globes, SAG Actor Awards, Critics Choice. We space out that long. And what it does for us is reinvigorate everybody. Five years in, working eight months straight out of the year, you can get tired — but awards season reminds us exactly what we’re doing and keeps us from getting lazy and complacent. There was a connotation that came with network TV, like it was where you went to retire. We’re saying: no, we can hit with the best of them. And if anything, we’re doing it at a clip higher than most. It reinvigorates the crew, reinvigorates the cast, and reminds us that we’re still doing good work in a place where people didn’t think people were doing good work. I think more people should look at what’s on network differently — and hold other shows to the same standard. It is easier to tell a story at eight episodes. I would love to see as much respect given to those who do it at 22 as there is for those doing it at eight, 10, or 13.
Abbott Elementary is closing in on 100 episodes. What does that milestone mean to you?
I’ve been doing this for about 30 years. This will be the first time I hit 100 episodes on a show. To me, it’s like doing a marathon — anybody can keep a good pace the first mile, maybe the first five, but towards the end, that’s when you really find out who you are. The industry has changed — what are residuals even at this point, what is syndication in a world where streaming platforms can just keep a show up indefinitely? So it’s not as much of a win in that sense. But it is: we did this, and we were still making a good show at Episode 100. That’s what I’ll be most proud of. I know that when we table-read whatever that script is, I’ll be able to look to my left and to my right, and everybody sitting there — everyone who worked on it, everyone who’ll shoot it — will be able to stand on the fact that we did 100 of the best episodes we possibly could, and we didn’t phone it in once. That’s what I’m proud of.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
