Nicolas Winding Refn returns to Cannes with Her Private Hell, his first film in 10 years, his last being the Elle Fanning starrer Neon Demon. In the fashionista aspect of it all, you could say Her Private Hell is its spiritual cousin. The film begins at a swanky hotel in a futuristic LA-like city where a group of model-esque women played by Sophie Thatcher, Kristine Froseth and Havana Rose Liu congregate. They’re about to make a Barbarella-like sci-fi movie. But a killer by the name of Leather Man lurks. In typical NWR style, Her Private Hell is a psychedelic journey into the darkness of night, with camp and guffaws.
DEADLINE: Hearing Pino Donaggio’s score, Her Private Hell transports one back to the thrillers of the 1960s. Tell us about the inspirations.
NICHOLAS WINDING REFN: Well, in my situation, I can’t point to a specific inspiration because it’s many things, but I think I can narrow it down to an experience. Three years ago, I died, and I was dead for 20 minutes. When you’re told that you’re maybe going to die within two weeks, a lot of things go through your mind: You’re afraid, angry, frustrated, sad, you lash out. But then, I realized that I’d been given a gift, that if I could come back, I was going to be given a second chance. Most people don’t get that. And I was going to be young enough to live for at least another 25 years. When I did come back alive, thank god, I was like, I had to start all over again with everything, but this time, I had 30 years of knowledge. You completely have to start over again with everything; moving your legs, arms, stuff like that. And I saw that I wanted to make movies again, the same way I’d wanted to make movies when I was young, but I also had a very specific mantra, which was: I will make things that come to me instinctively.
So, the film became many things for me. You can say there’s everything from horror, to sci-fi, to melodrama, to musical, to camp, to kitsch, to action, to color, and yet, you can’t put your finger on it. That’s a wonderful experience.
DEADLINE: Were you dying from a heart-related issue?
REFN: I had a leaking heart, which means the blood was running backwards, so it was very poetic, in a sense, and it was kind of a mechanical failure inside of me that god had implemented. It came at a time when I had come to the end of the road of my own kind of first act.
If you can come back, you can change, you can reevaluate, you can do many things in life that maybe you weren’t prepared to do. You understand time in a different way. At the end of the day, how much time do we have left? How much time will you give me?
DEADLINE: Her Private Hell evolves constantly. Eliza Kazan advised you when it came to the craft “to do it your way”, but were you ever taught a three-act structure early on, and simply rebelled from the start?
REFN: Well, I never got to class. I dropped out of film school. I never was able to start. And I’ve never catered to that form of concept. I understand logistics, but I don’t find it interesting. There’s something interesting though in social media that scrolling provides, because it’s a matter of controlling your opportunity to just experience instant gratification. When the algorithm begins to learn your sensibilities, it creates a kind of narrative that even though it doesn’t make sense, it makes sense to you as you’re scrolling, because it begins to understand your dopamine.
And even though there’s not an overall three-act structure in the movie, you’re constantly designed to be entertained and want to see more until you suddenly have to stop yourself, like cocaine, and say, enough, or else I’m going to die. So, the idea that one thing can become many things is what I find more interesting.
DEADLINE: Talk about casting. It’s like you’ve assembled a fashion runway with myriad looks that altogether are a symphony. What do you look for in your thespians? Do they need to be able to improv or be flexible if you decide to rip up a shot list?
REFN: It’s all of the above. When it comes to collaborators, actors are the most important because they’re extensions of you. Nicole [Daniels] and Courtney [Bright], who did the casting, spent a year looking for actors. We didn’t find the right people until the very end. Sophie Thatcher was a very late meeting, after seven or eight months, and then, once she was cast to play Elle, and obviously, you know, Elle Fanning is an important person in my life, so, there is a reason why her name is Elle.
Sophie has that thing when the camera turns on, she becomes the center of everything. She looks like a classic movie star from the 1930s and ‘40s when there was a spunkiness to the female-driven characters. At the same time, there’s a gentleness and punk attitude.
Once Sophie was cast as the lead, it was then building around her. Charles Melton came about because my youngest daughter, Lizzielou, showed me Riverdale, which I love by the way. I saw him in one of the latter seasons, which was set in the ‘50s with his leather jacket and hair, and I was like, that’s the G.I.
Kristine Froseth’s character was tricky, as we were walking the fine line of seriousness and camp, and you have to be a very good actor to really navigate that. We were like, “It’s her, and if she doesn’t want it, we’re in trouble.” Havana Rose Liu, who plays Elle’s stepmom, was quite bold in really going there, and when she came on, the whole theme between daughter and stepmom became very dominating.
DEADLINE: You met Pope Leo XIV. How did that come about?
REFN: The revolutionary people who run Rome’s 24-hour cinema, Cinema Piccolo, organized it. I’d been selected and was very honored. I didn’t know what to expect, because I’m not Catholic. Also, I had never been to the Vatican. I had two agendas on my list: I wanted to get a selfie with the Pope, and I wanted to get a message from the Pope to my youngest daughter. The selfie was tricky because the minute I saw people take out cameras, security was all over them. So, I was like, how the hell do I do it? I was sitting next to Monica Bellucci, and I figured out if I could take a selfie with her at the right moment, I could include the Pope in the image. So, mission one accomplished, which was a great trio. When I actually got to meet him, I told him I wanted him to give a message to my daughter. He looked at me, and he said, “Tell her I said hello,” and I was like, “Oh, my god!” And I was leaving the Vatican, calling her, saying, “I have a message from the Pope.”
DEADLINE: Are we going to have to wait 10 years for your next movie?
REFN: No, we’re not. I want to make another movie very soon.
DEADLINE: Do you have an idea what the next one will be?
REFN: I actually know what I want to do for the next four years.
